I'm picturing some form of "the Dalai Lama is born in New York City and uses his wisecracking street smart "give us your huddled masses" wiles to convince China to Free Tibet!" movie.

I suppose I should look up this Pathfinder thingo.

Next offense: Australia takes pr0n and booze off Aborigines because they can't handle it. ZOUNDS.

Oho! He really is a sort of Magical Whitey, isn't he? Possibly a close relation of Homosapiens Sue in those Clan of the Cave Bear books ("oh she is so ugly with her long slim legs, large bosom and chin!")

The horns on the helmets are what really get to me, inaccurate-costume-wise. I mean... Horned helmets! Doesn't everyone know that they didn't actually wear helmets with horns on?

And wtf kind of horns are those, anyway?

And the best part? The offensiveness started out in comic form.

I do agree that Pathfinder looks naff. I also find it fascinating that a white person saving another ethnic group (What We Need is a Honky) is negative plot point as is an ethnic minority saving a bunch of whites (Magic Negro). Hmph, funny.

Fair enough. In my defense I will say I have been drinking and my judgement was impared. Thus, I agree with you on all points and I have sternly told the drink to stop talking. Jeez, it's 1:20am, I have work in the morning. Good night.

Is that completely bad, though? I mean yes, maybe it's annoying that movies pander to the lowest common denominator by maknig the hero white, so much of White America will watch it. But if that white man is a good person, espouses worthy thought and right thinking, does that make it *that* bad? It doesn't mean we don't need to do better, but at least it's a start...

Point. Saturation, got it. Urg.

On a slightly related note. Samuel L is going to be Nick Fury in the new Iron Man movie. Kick ass. I like Ultimate Fury better anyway.

Never mind that The Last Samurai was all about the myth of the samurai, and not about how the samurai were like the Knights of western Europe...total assholes. Mysogynistic, too.

But I digress.

To be fair, I like the story of Dances With Wolves. That's what I daydream of being sometime. A guy that goes back to that time, and gives the tribes the 411 to kick the Europeans off their land before they even get a foothold. I'd much rather be an Iroquois. :P

Pretty much. Disease literally wiped out several of the east-coast AmerIndian cultures, leaving behind ghost towns full of farms and goods that the few survivors did not take when they fled. This happened long before European aggression even began, though you bet it was exploited later.

I agree that the native groups weren't fools, and it's important to remember they did indeed just have implementation problems--on top of the disease issue and the depression that comes with losing one's entire TRIBE, they had lesser weapon technology, and in many cases Europeans manipulated local groups against each other by favoring one tribe and giving them firearms so they could wipe out their enemies with an efficiency never known before. Groups warring against one another before the Europeans came wasn't uncommon, but the kind of killing and slaughter that occured with the introduction of guns was extraordinarily uncommon, if it ever happened at all pre-colonization.

Plus, they weren't STRANGERS to the Europeans; there was friendly trade and many cultural exchanges going on before the systematic destruction of the AmerIndians ever really set in, so they weren't a Mysterious White People with Mysterious Weapons.

I have to note, concerning white people amongst natives, some tribes, early in the European settlement cycle, did take in tribe members from both runaway slaves (black or white, even if the whites were more indentured servants), and people who merely thought that the AmerIndian way of life was better. They assimilated into the culture, not becoming "better" or an "advantage" over the tribe in any way. They may have brought some of their culture in, but they very much just wanted to live the way the AmerIndians were. So really, the Dances With Wolves scenario was deeply unlikely.

A noteworthy group on this point were the Seminoles, if you're interested in reading up on that kind of thing, rantmaster. And uh, sanachan1, sorry for randomly latching on with stuff you probably knew. :P

(Yay Avatar icon!)

Hijack away, this is all fascinating.

I have heard that the Aztec Empire was on the verge of self-destruction even as the Spaniards arrived - did this have an impact too?

I'm not egotistical enough to think I'm smarter than they were. But I would have information they didn't have, such as about the diseases, and such. Besides, the natives and the Europeans were on good terms, at some points. They didn't know that some people are assholes, and would break the deals other well meaning people made.

But, anyway.

Not out there yet? Odd, it has come and gone in NZ (maybe because of Karl Urban?). We won some tickets to see the premiere. It wasn't good.

Offensive-wise though, the plot isn't really based around the Viking kid out-Native Americaning the Native Americans so much as it is him out Vikinging (heh, silly word) the Vikings. Essentially, it seems he has the only steel sword on the continent and knows (from his childhood Viking training - dunno how historically accurate that one is) what he is doing with it (the film suggests the arrows and spears of the tribe are largely non-effective against the armour of the Vikings, which seems reasonable given the super heavy armour they seem to have in the film, at least). As far as doing Native American stuff better than the Native Americans, it's not *exactly* like that - it's mostly local area knowledge he uses to his advantage wot comes from living there for 20 years, knowing about caves and passes and terrain and things (and a few of the old "springy bit with a big wooden spike on it" numbers). He does also have a couple of tribal buddies fighting with him the entire time.

Not that I'm defending it as a movie, or as a shining example of cultural sensitivity, but it's probably less bad than some. The major thing is that it's just simply not a very good film, and I think next to no-one will see it.

Speaking of generalised stereotypical Hollywood portrayals of other cultures though, I saw Ocean's 13 last night - enjoyed it a lot, but reflected afterwards that perhaps Mexicans watching may not feel their country and culture was portrayed in such a great light...

Well, one if them is essentially the love interest, and the other one is a sort of "everyone thinks I'm useless, but I can help - honest I can!" sort of character. He gets killed as part of the general Viking fighting action. BUT, love interest's father does get killed after trying (and failing) to save Karl and the love interest from capture (the Viking then gets pull him apart with horses. Ouch). I seem to recall he may have even passed some kind of mystical legacy onto Karl Urban just before this, so yeah, bad :)

He does take quite a few Vikings down with him, though.

Oh yeah, rantmaster, I've totally stolen your awesome icon, as you can see :) Not sure on the netiquette on lj icons, I hope that's OK?

Ah, nice. Yes, we must preach Izzard to the world :)

Makes this thread a bit confusing when we're both here though, so I'll switch - you were there first :)

And who the hell taught him how to use a sword, anyway???

The movie takes care to show us him swishing his sword around doing some exercises before the Vikings show up to demonstrate that - hmmm - he's kept up his practise for 20 years, and so is presumably therefore just as good at swordfighting as he was when he was, er, 12.

Clearly there was some talking tree in the forest (offscreen) that instructed him in both the 'Intermediate' and 'Advanced' stages of the Viking Swordfighting System.

I snagged it off of Ryan North's at Dinosaur Comics! Yay clip art!

review from indian country today.

Oh ick. I heard a little about the movie and thought "hmm, that could be interesting, a movie about the Viking incursion into Canada!" And then I saw the preview... and my head nearly exploded. I think seeing the actual movie might give me a heart attack. There's so much wrong with the damn thing there's no place to start. I think what pisses me off most is the idea of the Vikings cutting a bloody swath through the natives, when current academic speculation is that it was the other way around, and the Viking settlement in Canada may have actually been wiped out by the locals.

*snort* oh yeah let's overload the boat with skrayling "slaves" cos ya know viking society doesn't have enough of those...
I am so board with the fucking with history/aren't whites awesome? movies.
(300 anyone?)

So... What We Need Is A Honky who can be his own Magic Negro

Oh dear sweet Jesus... *facepalm*