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superme
OKAY INTERNETS.

Let's open this baby up. All discussion/questions on Guardian of the Dead welcome - some may end up in the FAQ.

Obviously, spoilers everywhere.

Feel free to talk to other people in the thread; usual rules of conduct apply re: not being a jerk.

ETA: The excellent Alvina Ling offers to answer questions from an editor's point of view, also!

Comments

( 82 — comment )
opheliastorn
Apr. 12th, 2010 01:30 am (UTC)
So I notice that Ellie's mask is a lot like Hex from ReBoot's face! Is this a thing (Power! Corruption! Crazy!), or just coincidence?
karenhealey
Apr. 12th, 2010 01:32 am (UTC)
I think I have seen like four five minute chunks of ReBoot and I do not know who Hex is.

Coincidence!

But I like the correlation.
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smozer
Apr. 12th, 2010 02:07 am (UTC)
Pacing
Hi Karen. I really enjoyed your book and found it hard to put down. One of the reasons for that was your pacing. You had so much to tell and, as the other poster mentioned, so much back story. How did you decide how much to reveal and when to reveal it?
karenhealey
Apr. 12th, 2010 11:56 am (UTC)
Re: Pacing
The pacing is proving a hard sell to some readers, so I'm delighted you liked it!

When I started, I had no idea what I was doing - I just went with what came naturally in the unwinding of the story, in order to get the plot out. But of course the plot changed a lot, and different backstories needed to be inserted and shuffled around. Basically, a lot of re-writing and swearing at myself and eventually hammering it into something I and my editors were happy with.

Pacing is kind of my bugbear, next to action, so I tend to work on it as hard as I can!
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troubleinchina
Apr. 12th, 2010 02:35 am (UTC)
Are you absolutely positive you're not going to fix New Zealand? ALL THOSE DEAD PEOPLE OMG.
karenhealey
Apr. 12th, 2010 02:39 am (UTC)
THEY ARE ALL DEAD FOR REALS. NO TAKEBACKS.

That was actually the hardest thing to do in terms of doing awful things to people in the book, because it's certain to happen. Mist-dwelling magical serial killers are not actually something people need to worry about. But by virtue of its position over a tectonic shift zone, New Zealand will, at some point, be hit by a major earthquake, and it's going to be really, really bad.
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holli
Apr. 12th, 2010 02:38 am (UTC)
Did you put Theodore the blue Beetle in as a delicious surprise just for me? Because, dude, I busted out laughing at that.
karenhealey
Apr. 12th, 2010 02:39 am (UTC)
I put it in as a delicious surprise for anyone who gets it! I am very glad you did.
handyhunter
Apr. 12th, 2010 02:52 am (UTC)
I've been noticing a few stories of women in the moon lately -- in Guardian of the Dead, Avatar: TLA, and, uh, Wolverine: Origins. I don't have a question to go with this observation, though I wonder how many cultures have similar moon myths.

Also, I like that you didn't redeem Blake because his kind of pushy/sexually aggressive behavior seems to get rewarded a lot or considered 'true love' (he just can't keep his hands off her) in romance &YA romance books.

In the sequel(s), do you think you'd continue with Ellie as the main character or switch to a different POV?
karenhealey
Apr. 12th, 2010 02:57 am (UTC)
I actually think I dropped the ball on Blake a little bit - he's still in the play, for ex, and Ellie doesn't tell Iris what he did, and there are obvs consequences and complex things going into that. An earlier draft went a little more into that, but as Blake got downgraded that storyline got less important too.

I like Ellie bunches, but I am not sure she could sustain PoV for a direct sequel; a lot of her personal journey has already happened, and it's hard to go from "30 000 dead people!" to "another crisis! With also some high stakes but not that high!" with the same character. The sequel I am noodling on at present features Ellie, but is told from the PoV of someone who's not in Guardian.
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heidi8
Apr. 12th, 2010 03:52 am (UTC)
Any Finn-songs that you found inspirational but didn't utilize as chapter titles, etc? Any specific songs that should be played while reading certain chapters?
karenhealey
Apr. 12th, 2010 03:58 am (UTC)
Oh, tons of them! Four Seasons In One Day, Private Universe, Not The Girl You Think You Are - just a huge bunch.

And no - I don't soundtrack my work per se.
labellementeuse
Apr. 12th, 2010 04:44 am (UTC)
Was the decision to have Ellie & her cohort in secondary school, rather than university, a decision made before or after the MS was accepted? If after, can Ms Ling elaborate a bit on this choice? I'm awful curious about this process at the moment.
alvina49
Apr. 12th, 2010 04:09 pm (UTC)
We felt that the original draft that was submitted was a bit too adult because of the age and attitude of Ellie, and thought Ellie needed to be in HS for this to work in the U.S. YA market. I didn't feel it would be too difficult to age her down (although Karen can speak to how easy or hard it actually was to execute!). We did acquire the novel before that change was actually made, with the assurance by Karen via her agent that this would be revised for the final book. I thought the age change was absolutely seamless and brilliant--I'll bet readers who weren't aware of this original manifestation would have no idea that Ellie was at university in an earlier draft!
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miggy
Apr. 12th, 2010 07:24 am (UTC)
How do you come up with your ideas?

*beatific smile*
karenhealey
Apr. 12th, 2010 08:18 am (UTC)
I'm glad you asked!

I was sitting in an enchanted glade and finishing another of my fine embroidered tapestries, which were the wonder of the whole land, when my mother rode up on her charger.

"Karen," she said, "Clumsy, flabby fruit of my loins. I have a quest for you."

"Mum, I just got some new yarn!" I said. "They make this purple with shells-"

"PIFFLE," she said, and tossed a worn dagger at me. "Take this, and go and kill the ogre under yonder hill."

"Is this an enchanted sword?" I asked.

"Hardly. I gave the enchanted sword to your sister, who will put it to good use. But I'm tired of your bringing shame upon our family. Kill the ogre, and bring back the treasure it hordes, and I'll let you go back to your embroidery and tea parties."

"Oh, okay," I said, and rolled up the tapestry just in case it would be useful.

I gathered a band of trusty companions of various backgrounds and skills, escaped the clutches of a dark sorcerer who wanted to seduce me, solved a riddle posed by a mythological beast, and found the ogre.

"I'm supposed to kill you, but I'd rather not," I said. "Mind if I swap you this tapestry for your treasure instead?"

"What wonderful needlework!" she exclaimed. "What subtle use of colour gradients! Certainly."

The treasure was a small mechanical bird that told enchanting stories, one of which was the plot of Guardian of the Dead.

And that's how I come up with my ideas.

Edited at 2010-04-12 08:19 am (UTC)
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bookshop
Apr. 12th, 2010 12:49 pm (UTC)

In the reality in which there is definitely going to be a sequel *nods nods* my question is:

will there be any consequences for Ellie using the mask on her teacher or her neighbor? I know the shock of the earthquake will probably be a huge distraction (and her neighbor's son, omg, I hope he walks again :( )--but it seems like memory charms in this universe aren't really infallible, and so I can't help but wonder.......
karenhealey
Apr. 12th, 2010 12:56 pm (UTC)
In the reality in which there is definitely going to be a sequel, I can't spoil what I haven't written!

But yes and no. Neither Hinemoana nor Mrs. Chapell have latent power as Ellie does, and the mask is quite a bit stronger at the mind-whammy than Mark's bracelet, which he's been successfully using for years*, so they themselves will not be able to shake off the charm and apply consequences.

But there are consequences to using the mask, both magical and ethical, that in the cross-our-fingers sequel Ellie will have to deal with.

* Oh, Mark, your ethics are as tangled as a tangled thing.
shveta_thakrar
Apr. 12th, 2010 09:51 pm (UTC)
*holds hand in front of eyes*

Not peeking at comments. No, no, no!

Just dashing in to squeal with delight at the fact that my copy of hte book finally shipped! It should be here soon. Fi-freakin'-ally!

Whoo-hoo!

*dashes blindly back out, barely missing the the bookcase on the way*
ralaja
Apr. 13th, 2010 03:56 am (UTC)
I don't really get the comments, but wanted to say that I just knocked out 5 chapters in one sitting and it is beautiful.
karenhealey
Apr. 13th, 2010 04:09 am (UTC)
Thank you!
franzferdinand2
Apr. 13th, 2010 07:58 pm (UTC)
Alvina, as an editor, what do you find is the best way to establish a working relationship with an author? Or is this one of those that is a case-by-case basis? Does it help to just send them photos of their sleeping loved ones with a note that says, "Do what I say, typewriter monkey!"
alvina49
Apr. 13th, 2010 09:12 pm (UTC)
Yes, I think threats are the best way to make sure the author/editor relationship is the best it can be.

But seriously...umm, tough question. I like to have a conversation, whether on the phone or email, about how the editorial process will work, and ask the author how they like to work, or else tell them how *I* generally work and ask them if that works for them. But really, it's a "see how it goes" type of thing and we make adjustments as things go on. Overall, I try to be as available and open as possible. And I like to be friends (or at least, friendLY) with the authors I work with, because that makes the whole process more fun.

Also, I do try to make it clear throughout the whole process that the book is and always will be the author's book, and any comments or suggestions I make are just that--suggestions only. I don't want the author to make any changes that he or she does not agree with. After all, it's not MY name that goes on the cover!
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nessaneko
Apr. 14th, 2010 09:28 am (UTC)
Okay, this is going to be a two-part comment. One part is giant flailing squeeing over how ABSOLUTELY EFFING AWESOME you are, and the second part is actually questions.

SQUEEING COMMENCE! Well, um, you're giantly awesome. It was payday today so I went along to Wellington Borders to see if they had it, and lo and behold, THEY DID! And I read it ALL DAY LONG at work, and finished it in one big bite. It was fantastic. Seriously. I think one of my favourite lines was "So, you're a wizard, you unbelievable dick?", and in part I adored that line because it is a thing I could potentially have heard around me, and having an amazing novel set in my land, in my Kiwi voice, with legends about the part of the world in which I've grown up so that I can recognise what's going on (see: pale red-headed woman from the mist who can't abide the smell of cooked food - ominosity level hits 11) was awesome. I am now pushing it on all of my friends, and trying to convince them to buy copies so that the potential sequel will become non-potential and turn into a Real Book Too.

Now it is question time. The "being able to see the legends" such as the man in the sky, the woman in the moon (and the chariot in the moon Ellie can see after hearing the myth) reminds me of the ideas in Pratchett's Pyramids, where (I think, from memory, due to quantum and a bad idea involving a giant pyramid) the faux-Egyptian country Djelibeybi was wrenched into a myth-version. There, in the myth-version all the myths suddenly appeared, so the characters suddenly became able to see things like the giant woman in the sky who wore all the stars, and because of all the different myths about the sun, there was a big scuffle between the different sun-gods as to who would push the sun across the sky. It was sort of a look at all the different Ancient Egyptian myths, and how all of them could be true at once. Obviously, it's a very different context from yours, but have you read it or heard of it?

Also, GEEZE, NO HAPPY ROMANTIC ENDINGS ALL NEATLY TIED UP *sulk* Will Mark ever get to be human, I ask hopefully? I suspect the answer to this is "Maybe, because SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER" but I have to ask nevertheless.
handyhunter
Apr. 14th, 2010 01:49 pm (UTC)
Will Mark ever get to be human, I ask hopefully?

He mentions in the book that taniwha can learn to take on human form and that Reka asked his grandfather to teach him how to do that (because she wants grandchildren. Heh). As for becoming fully human, I don't think that's possible, but then I prefer that he isn't. :)
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odditycollector
Apr. 15th, 2010 12:04 pm (UTC)
At the very end of Chapter 3, I was afraid the conversation between Ellie and Mark would be awkward to read, but instead I found myself giggling! In fact, you didn't hit my embarrassment squick once, even though there are events which would have under another author's fingers. What is your secret?
karenhealey
Apr. 15th, 2010 12:37 pm (UTC)
Plenty of spinach!

Or, I have no idea. I have a hefty embarrassment squick myself, so possibly I unconsciously avoid triggering it?
avendya
Apr. 20th, 2010 05:34 pm (UTC)
Do you plan to write a sequel in this 'verse? (And will it contain Iris? And Kevin? I liked Ellie, but I loved Iris and Kevin SO MUCH OMG.)
avendya
Apr. 20th, 2010 05:42 pm (UTC)
Oh, as per your request on your profile, I've friended you, because I loved Guardian of the Dead. I am a sort-of asexual (I'm not entirely sure) teenager, so Kevin made me capslock a lot, and I really appreciated the care you put into the racial issues (that's how the book was recommended to me - essentially, "this author says sensible things on the Internet, maybe I should read her book".)

One last question, not exactly related to Guardian: what do you think of fanfiction? (I am aware you probably can't read Guardian fanfiction, due to legal issues, but what do you think of it in general?)
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crossablackcat.blogspot.com
Apr. 30th, 2010 11:05 pm (UTC)
It may be already obvious and I just missed it entirely, but I'm curious to ask anyway. While Ellie and Iris are showering and recovering at the theatre after the battle on the bridge, Ellie apologises for not being "fair" to Iris, only to have Iris admit she hadn't been fair to Ellie either. What did Iris mean by that?
karenhealey
Apr. 30th, 2010 11:12 pm (UTC)
That she had also harboured thoughts about Ellie that weren't fair. Ellie does not get to know what those were!
jessikast
May. 7th, 2010 01:00 am (UTC)
Finally just finished reading (after leaving my reserve copy waiting at the bookshop for FAR TOO LONG.)

I have a lot of squee! I think the main thing that hit me about the book is that - okay. I have many favourite young adult/childrens NZ authors. And they are wonderful and they capture Kiwi people and places and everything and it's awesome.

BUT. You are the first one I've read who's about my age, and I think it shows. There's just a little something extra in the characters and settings that I connected with, that this wasn't so much a Book as a story about people I could nearly know. My biggest squee is Ellie finishing her perfectly articulate classroom arguement with "So, um, yeah." YEAH.

Question: Magda. Will we see more of her in any potential future books?
karenhealey
May. 21st, 2010 02:57 am (UTC)
I would LOVE to throw Magda in there somewhere, but the trouble is again one of age and focus. YA audiences, not so much for the 23 year olds. Anyway, she has her own life in Australia which is going pretty well for her, and I have vague thoughts about a thingy that might be internet only which would involve Magda and Iris hanging out in Melbourne.
yamx
Mar. 4th, 2011 01:02 am (UTC)
Hi,

I just thought you might like to know that I wrote a review of Guardian of the Dead for AVENues, the asexuality.org newsletter. You can download the free newsletter here, if you're interested:
http://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B-TE5y8x-058YjIzYTY4NTItZmMzNy00YzI5LWFkMzMtYzMwNDIyNTdkMjI0

I love the book, in case you couldn't tell from the review. ;) And thank you for including an asexual character!

Sorry I didn't include a link to this thread. I only just found your LJ.
karenhealey
Mar. 4th, 2011 02:27 am (UTC)
Aw, thank you very much! I'm really pleased you liked the book.
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Mar. 11th, 2011 08:54 am (UTC)
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Mar. 19th, 2011 01:36 am (UTC)
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(Anonymous)
Jan. 20th, 2012 01:39 pm (UTC)
nice to be here
i think not all of you agree with that .. but i have to say

an arab ... learn the languge :d
thanks
karenhealey
Jan. 20th, 2012 01:42 pm (UTC)
Re: nice to be here
I have no idea what this means.
( 82 — comment )

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